Tony Benn retired from a 51-year Parliamentary career in 2001, joking at the time that he was “leaving parliament to spend more time in politics”. After holding cabinet positions in the Labour governments of the 1960s and 1970s, Benn migrated to the left of the party by the end of the 1970s, and has remained a prominent voice in left-wing British politics ever since.
In 2001 Benn became president of the Stop the War Coalition, and campaigned on a public platform against both the Afghanistan and Iraq War. In February 2003 he travelled to Baghdad to interview Saddam Hussein on British television to see if a peaceful solution could be worked out, prior to the invasion of Iraq.
Benn has just released his final volume of diaries: A Blaze of Autumn Sunshine: The Last Diaries 2007-2012. I visited the 88-year-old at his home in Notting Hill to discuss the book. While his health has deteriorated considerably in recent months, his mind is still razor sharp. I began by asking him about his relationship with religion.
You’ve claimed that your socialist beliefs come from the same value system as Christianity. But do you not also think that organised religion is an intoxicating force that restricts people’s ability to think freely?
Well the idea of religion being a group which gives authority to someone at the top is quite unacceptable. Religion can distort, and even drive people to war. Whatever group you are in, you should never give up your own judgement as to what is right or wrong. Christianity has given us ideas of how we should follow the right course to live. But some of it’s other teachings have been much more negative.
Do you agree with any elements of conservative ideology? For example: Edmund Burke’s idea of maintaining the social order to keep society stable?
Well when you say the social order it depends on whether you mean the existing social order, or a form of social order that will give us justice. And there is a big difference between the two. Burke wasn’t a particularly democratic man, but he did say things that were interesting and still do have influence to our thinking today. I think life is a continual struggle with yourself and society. And you have to try and arrive at the best arrangement. In that sense every generation has to fight the same battles again and again.
What is your attitude to the British Monarchy?
I am a Republican. I believe that you should elect your own head of state. This isn’t an attack on the British Royal Family. It’s just an attack on the fact that this particular Royal Family [in Britain] should have several constitutional duties attached to it. The nearest thing we have to an elected President in Britain is the speaker of the House of Commons. The alternative to monarchy is not anarchy: it’s a form of constitutional government.
Does the Royal Family affect how people in Britain think politically?
The Royal Family requires you to do what everybody else does, and what has always been done before in Britain. Therefore I guess you are restricted from doing anything because you feel you can’t. The monarchy is a historical accident. And because of that accident we have [in Britain] become controlled to some extent. I think a lot of people agree with me on this point.
Nearly all states, throughout history, have been formed out of a violent struggle: do you think in the future that can change?
Well the most revolutionary idea there is in the world is democracy. The trouble about violence is that it creates counter-violence. Then you get locked into bloodshed and there is no end or answer to it. I think a peaceful solution is the best outcome to the difficulties you may have.
But you wouldn’t consider yourself a pacifist, right?
Well if somebody attacks you, there is a case to be made to defend yourself. That is different to the idea that you conquer the world by force and bring great areas of the human race under your control: which is what most empires have wanted to do. That kind of violence is something I am very much opposed to.
How do you regard those people who say their vote is worth nothing and democracy is a waste of time?
I regard pessimism as an instrument of the right. If those who say these things actually saw that democracy is an instrument that can change society, then they would never accept the idea that the whole thing is a fraud. This kind of rhetoric is for people who don’t want anything to change and just say: don’t bother, it’s all a waste of time, they are all the same and so on.
You’ve written before that you think drugs should be legalised. Why do you think that would be a good idea?
Well I have often wondered about that. I think the argument for the repression of drug use is so oppressive that you wonder whether there is a better way of doing it. And all I have ever done is to put the question publicly and ask should we do that? I’m not in favor of drug use. But I wonder if the current way we treat the subject is the best way of handling it.
Do you think about death at this late stage in your life?
Well as you get older you realise that you are going to die. My wife, who died of breast cancer in 2001, knew she was going to die. She was very courageous about it. She said she regarded death as a great adventure, which I thought was a very bold way of putting it.
I have thought about death: the moment where you switch the button off, or you think what lies ahead? Which is one of the great mysteries of life. Thinking about death is a useful thing to do because it is something that is going to happen to you.
Do you fear death?
Well it is the end of your life and it is a very important event. On the other hand, the influence that people have after they have died is considerable. Many people we think and talk about now have died many years ago, and yet, they still live on in a tradition which is still relevant to us today. So I think we should just regard death as normal.
How would you like people to remember you when you are gone?
I would be very pleased when I die if somebody put on a stone: Tony Benn. He encouraged us. I think encouragement is the most important thing you can do when you are alive. I have encouraged people a lot in my life. Encouragement is a collective relationship which is very fruitful.
Blaze of Autumn Sunshine: The Last Diaries by Tony Benn is out now (Hutchinson, £20)
